Who Will You Vote In The Fall?

by Cheebs, Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:10:47 AM EST

Time to put your money where your mouth is. I wanna see if these pro-McCain voters who always post diaries are as large as they seem to be. Poll after the fold.





Poll
Who Will You Cast Your Ballot For?
Sen. Barack Obama (Democrat)
Sen. John McCain (Republican)

Votes: 121
Results : Vote Link : Polls


Tags: Obama, McCain, 2008 (all tags)

Display:
Permalink :: 127 Comments :: Post a Comment


Hmmmmm, tough call.... (2.00 / 1)

Oh wait, no it isn't.

Obama.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:13:13 AM EST

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (2.00 / 4)

Hillary Rodham Clinton


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:14:20 AM EST

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (2.00 / 2)

Write it ballots do not count in the total vote count ever though.


by Cheebs on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:16:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (2.00 / 3)

Come to think of it if she runs as an Independent , is it conceiveable she would get more democratic votes than Obama ?

I would like to see the polling for her as an Independent candidate , just for the hell of it.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:19:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (2.00 / 1)

As far as that goes, I'd submit that:

(1) Obama is winning in the primary and;
(2) His name recognition started much, much lower than it was now
(3) When the race began and up through Super Tuesday, he was over 10 points behind in the national Dem headsup; he is now as much as 10 points ahead.

So I think if you repolled every state now, he'd have a much larger margin. For example, the CA poll the other day - if they reheld their primary, Obama would supposedly win by 6.


by mattw on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:22:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (2.00 / 1)

And supposedly he would have won by three or so when they really held it.


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:52:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (none / 0)

Doubftul...

Considering she's already missed the deadline to get on many state ballots as an independent and many state likewise have provisions that prevent someone from running as a certified candidate in one party's primary, then running in the GE as an indy.

Without checking 50 Sos sites -- I'd be willing to bet, sight unseen, that Clinton would already be unable to procure a spot on half the state's ballots.


by zonk on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:11:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (2.00 / 3)

A vote for Clinton is a vote for McCain.


by mattw on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:19:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Technically only half a vote (2.00 / 3)

but the spirit of your comment is correct.


by JJE on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:22:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (2.00 / 3)

....uh?

A vote for Hillary Rodham Clinton is exactly what it is , a vote for her .


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:23:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

As Kodos once said (2.00 / 3)

Go ahead!  Throw your vote awaaaay!


by JJE on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:26:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As Kodos once said (2.00 / 2)

Don't blame me, I voted for Kang.


by RP McMurphy on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:29:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As Kodos once said (2.00 / 4)

Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others!

(cheering)


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:55:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (2.00 / 1)

Where you saying that to the Nader supporters in 2000?  If so, fair point then, I don't agree, but no problem in terms of consistency.


by labor nrrd on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:27:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (none / 0)

Nader?


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:31:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (none / 0)

No a vote for Hillary is a vote for your conscience..stop the infantile rhetorical tricks


by gorgias on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:03:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's a vote for childishness (2.00 / 1)

Voting is about making a rational choice to maximize the likelihood that the country will move in the direction you prefer in various areas.

Voting is not about making you feel good and validating your emotions.  If you want to do that, go make a bunch of Hillary Clinton macaroni pictures or something.


by JJE on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:59:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (2.00 / 1)

How's the conscience of all the Nader voters from 2000, who said there was no difference between Bush and Gore?

A vote for anyone but the Democratic nominee is a (half) vote for McCain. You can come up with whatever reasons you want, but that's the EFFECT of such a vote.


by mattw on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:25:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (2.00 / 3)

Heh, what's funny is, any attempt to try to take McCain seriously as a candidate just doesn't work in my brain. I've had enough years already of a President with dementia. McCain is a huge Republican pandering flip-flopper, who has tossed his "Maverick" status on the bonfire to try to appease lunatic wingnuts. Even when he was somewhat different, he wasn't that different. He's always had a penchant for the worst type of big government - unsustainable empire building. McCain, unlike many Republicans, is perfectly happy to raise taxes - because he wants to spend it all on the military so we can run the world. Not out of greed or an explicit desire to rule an empire... because he thinks we should forcibly imprint the glory of America on the rest of the world, ready or not.

On top of that, he doesn't understand the economy by his own admission, and its voters #1 issue. (Seriously; how can anyone think he's going to win in the fall? When the oppo ads start running in Oct/Nov in INSANELY heavy rotation with McCain repeatedly saying, "I don't understand the economy", who's going to vote for him?)

I won't even go into the wedge issues like abortion and gay rights; but suffice it to say, if you read myDD and you're not concern trolling on McCain's (illegal) payroll, the thought of voting for him should make your stomach turn.


by mattw on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:18:55 AM EST

5% odds of Mccain winning (2.00 / 1)

... and the SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!

Hillary democrats will vote for Obama. It's a done deal. But feel free to bitch, if you're pissed, I'll exercise my right to listen.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:46:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (2.00 / 1)

Bugs Bunny

Ah no, sorry, got it wrong... Barack Obama, yup that's the one.


by Fairy Tale on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:20:48 AM EST

Interesting (none / 0)

Freudian slip.


That's it, baby; let's go win this election!
by Beltway Dem on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:10:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My honest opinion (2.00 / 3)

First off, Senator Clinton has repeatedly addressed this issue, and her supporters who pledge support to McCain are going against a view strongly held by their candidate.

That said, I simply do not believe the Clinton supporters who say they will vote for McCain.  Tempers are running very high at the moment, but after a few months things will have cooled down.  The vast majority of HRC supporters who claim they will vote for McCain are making empty threats and will at the worst abstain from casting a ballot.  That's not to say there won't be a few who follow through, but they'll be numerically irrelevant.

My prediction is that Hillary will campaign vigorously for Barack Obama, both because she cares about her legacy and because she is a true liberal who believes in his policies.  This will help enormously to heal the current divide.

In the cold light of the voting booth, it would be hard indeed for any liberal who understands his positions to cast a vote for John McCain in good faith.


by semiquaver on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:23:16 AM EST

Re: My honest opinion (2.00 / 1)

In the cold light of the voting booth, it would be hard indeed for any liberal who understands his positions to cast a vote for John McCain in good faith.

- What if you are not a liberal , isn't it possible that there would a large swath of people who vote for Mccain because the have more in common ideologically than with Obama . Instead of just making it out as a protest vote ?

That is what is strange in an analysis like yours


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:28:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't understand (2.00 / 1)

- What if you are not a liberal , isn't it possible that there would a large swath of people who vote for Mccain because the have more in common ideologically than with Obama
If you are not a liberal, of course you're more likely to vote for McCain.  I don't follow what you are saying.  is this a claim that McCain voters have more in common ideologically with Obama than Clinton?


by semiquaver on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:36:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't understand (2.00 / 2)

You seem to make an assumption that most Hillary Voters are engaging in a protest vote and my point is she is no doubt getting support from liberals but most off her support is coming from moderates and conservative dems that are more likely to support Mccain on issue and ideological reasons than some sort of protest vote.

In other words you are misunderstanding the situation.

In an Obama/Mccain matchup party line voting would not hold as it has in the past.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:43:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So redraw the lines (2.00 / 1)

The party line thing was never that great for us anyway.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:48:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't assume that most HRC supporters (none / 0)

will make a protest vote

In fact, I explicitly said the exact opposite.


by semiquaver on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:51:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't assume that most HRC supporters (none / 0)

" That said, I simply do not believe the Clinton supporters who say they will vote for McCain.  Tempers are running very high at the moment, but after a few months things will have cooled down.  The vast majority of HRC supporters who claim they will vote for McCain are making empty threats and will at the worst abstain from casting a ballot.  That's not to say there won't be a few who follow through, but they'll be numerically irrelevant."

- Thats the paragraph you wrote that I am raising objection too .Your suggestion is that it is because of some sort of anger that is driving those that won't support Obama and that it would cool off.

It might be the case for some but most I know actually have issue and ideological reasons that have nothing to do with some sort of temper.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:57:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not to impose (2.00 / 3)

but I'm genuinely interested; would you mind running through what policy differences they differ on that would cause these people to vote against him?  Hillary herself has often said their views are mostly the same, and where they do differ it is always on minor details.


by semiquaver on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:03:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not to impose (none / 0)

maybe I should let you know where I am coming from I am a conservative democrats and my folks are Reagan democrats and I live in an area where the democrats are not distinguishable from republicans .

However I would list a few issues :

1) Rev. Wright

  1. Flag Pin.
  2. Bitter Comments about small town America.
  3. Patriotism
  4. Doesn't share their values .
  5. Not ready to be CIC

Ideological Perspective

1) Fiscal responsibility and balanced budgets
2) Tougher stance  on Iran .
3 ) National Security matters and military matters .e.g. talking to dictators one on one at the presidential level.
4) Iraq.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:14:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not to impose (2.00 / 1)

1) Rev. Wright

  2. Flag Pin.
   3. Bitter Comments about small town America.
   4. Patriotism
   5. Doesn't share their values .
   6. Not ready to be CIC


I'm sure you're aware, but these aren't policies.

Ideological Perspective

1) Fiscal responsibility and balanced budgets
2) Tougher stance  on Iran .
3 ) National Security matters and military matters .e.g. talking to dictators one on one at the presidential level.
4) Iraq.

As far as I'm aware, the candidates stated policies only differ on 2&3.  Nonetheless, thank you for responding, I genuinely appreciate your perspective.


by semiquaver on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:22:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not to impose (2.00 / 1)

most voters usually don't vote on policy issues alone , if they did Obama would likely not be where he is today .

Those issues I raised are part of the reasons I hear from people not voting for him , it really has not much to do with anger .

Like I said moderate/conservative democratic voters might vote for Mccain on issues other than anger


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:27:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't understand (2.00 / 1)

If you are not a liberal, of course you're more likely to vote for McCain.  

- not necessarily , Unless you are classifying all self identified democrats as liberals .


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:47:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"more likely" (none / 0)

is different than "all".  You are misrepresenting what I said.  By "more likely", I meant that a self-described non liberal is more likely to vote McCain than a self-described liberal. This should be very obvious.


by semiquaver on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:54:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My honest opinion (none / 0)

Then you would have more in common with McCain than Clinton and you should have never supported Clinton.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:38:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Only works sometimes (none / 0)

For independants and Republicans, that can work, but among Democrats, there's no chance.  The only issues that McCain has any leverage among Democrats in are the environment and immagration, and even in those, he's losing his grace.

I know that a lot of Obama voters are independants and Republicans that have more in common with McCain's policies, but believe in Obama due to character issues and a belief that the Republicans have lost their way.  I could see them swinging Republican if Obama weren't a candidate.

People who claim to be Democrats and vote against a perfectly reasonable candidate on behalf of a sellout to Republican core values are not, in fact, very strong Democrats.  Not only are they harming Obama, but all Democrats across the country who have to deal with more ridiculous executitive manipulation.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:40:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

They're also harming republicans... (none / 0)


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:00:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wrong... (1.66 / 3)

This HRC supporter will NEVER cast a vote for BO. AND, as of this morning, I have filled out a change of party registration form... to INDEPENDENT. And before you type back, "shoo, good riddence; "you were never a Democrat anyway, so no loss;" "SCOTUS;" "go to Red State.com;" etc.
I have been a LIFELONG Democrat. I no longer now want anything to do with this pathetic, BS Party.

BO will go down in flames. I Vehemently support HRC's campaign, but cannot and will not be a sheep led to slaughter even if she wants to take one for the Party. Edwards endorsement last night, like Richardson's after TX/OHIO is nothng more than an attempt to stop the bleeding of a candidate who has NO business securing the nomination. Lots of luck with your empty suit candidate who continues to need "rescuing."


Take it to the Convention! Hillary '08"
by JHL on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:35:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wrong... (2.00 / 1)

If you don't believe in the ideas of the Democratic party why were you a Democrat?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:39:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Point taken (2.00 / 1)

I just believe that people who hold that view and will act on it are vastly overrepresented in the blogosphere compared to the general population.   That's not a dis towards you; everyone has an absolute right to cast their vote however they see fit, including to protest or things like Limbaugh's Operation Chaos.   My claim is simply that McCain protest voters will not be a large group in November.


by semiquaver on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:41:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wrong... (2.00 / 2)

Except that for every Clinton supporter he loses he gains at least 2 young people who never cared about politics before.


by Cheebs on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:42:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wrong... (none / 0)

Good for you. Me too


Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:46:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wrong... (2.00 / 1)

And if he wins in a landslide and you are proven wrong and all the BO is unelectable hype turns out to be a pile of crap will you rejoin the party and apologize for spreading nonsense about the party's candidate and not joining Hillary in endorsing Obama?


by hankg on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:07:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you need to take a step back and I predict (none / 0)

you will, as will most HRC supporters.  All the better to resolve this quickly, folks will need some time.


by ksh on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:25:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The problem with BO supporters (2.00 / 1)

is that they have this continual mantra about how HRC supporters "will come around, given time." I think BO is the MOST devisive Democratic candidate that has ever come along in my lifetime. I abhor his tactics. I am disgusted by his arrogance and insolence. I am repulsed by his entire candidacy. He is a LIAR, a RACE CARD player, full of blowhard empty platitudes, and a disgrace of a candidate. And so are the "elitist" middle aged used up, LOSER backers --- a list so long it's pathetic from Kennedy (who NO One called on to drop out of his 1980 bid and took it to the Convention despite being down by more than 800 delegates!), to Daschle, to Kerry, to Bradley, to Edwards, to Dean. ALL = LOSERS. Just wantin to stay in the game and game the election. I hope the Clintons tell the DNC and the Party to F*^% themselves. The Party members who have particpated in this sham against a competent and much more ready and able candidate than empty suit BO and the electorate that anointed "The ONE" enjoy their BATTLE victory, because you reap what you sow and they will LOSE THE WAR. And to hankg--- you eat your pile of crap. I'll stick to real food.


Take it to the Convention! Hillary '08"
by JHL on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:05:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem with BO supporters (none / 0)

A little Splenda might make those grapes less sour.


by amiches on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:19:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You might need more time than others (none / 0)

good luck on that.


by ksh on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:41:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You don't believe us? (none / 0)

Boy are you in for a big surprise!

HRC all the way - NEVER BO.


by CoyoteCreek on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:53:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You don't believe us? (none / 0)

You'd be the one in for a big surprise. Ridiculed for ever with blood on your hands. Think Naderites x 1000.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:00:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You don't believe us? (2.00 / 1)

Why do you support Hillary Clinton?

If it has anything at all to do with what she believes and where she stands on the issues, you would be an absolute fool to vote for anyone but Barack Obama (if he's the nominee) in November.  He shares 99% of her positions, with only slight differences on health care, open government, etc. - and his opponent, John McCain, could not stand more strongly against the things Hillary Clinton believes in if he tried.

John McCain wants to roll back women's rights.
John McCain thinks this economy's going just fine.
John McCain sees progress in Iraq, and wants to keep our soldiers there in perpetuity.
John McCain disrespects even the women who are closest to him (calling his wife a "c***").

If you believe in what Hillary Clinton stands for, you should do as she has asked and will ask again, and vote for the Democratic nominee.  Do not betray her ideals by abstaining, throwing your vote away with a write-in, or worse, voting for John McCain.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:01:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I support HRC and I am against BO. (2.00 / 1)

Two very different things.

I have commented constantly on why I am against BO.  I fear for this country.  The man is totally inexperienced for this job and even he knows it (he would be foolish to begin to run in 2004 just after being elected to the Senate...then he started his run on Day one.)

Obama is a Political Lurker...always in the picture, but never out front, never leading the charge.  Even his "famous" speech resulted in not a single attempt by BO to end the war once he got into the Senate.  But then, he was so busy on day one running for his next promotion he forgot that little issue, didn't he?

I remember reading about him running into committee members on their way to a press conference about something they had just accomplished.  He said, "What's up" and they told him and he said, "Can I come along"?  They said sure - they wanted people on the podium for pictures and then he had the audacity (whoops!) to take the mic and speak as if he had been personally involved in the accomplishment.  Staffers were pissed as hell at what he did.

He lurked in CT in 2006 (never really coming out and supporting Ned Lamont).  He lurks on pro-choice (using weasel words and voting present).  He lurks on race (demanding a dialog and now saying we should all move on - pun intended!).  Condemning the Gas Tax Holiday proposal when he supported other such proposals three times.  

Where in the world does he really stand on things?  I don't know.  And I'm not willing to take a chance.

If we elect a lurker then Repugs will rule the day anyway because he lurks right as much as he lurks left.

NOT what we must have for this country if we are expected to move forward.

Plus, he has destroyed any improvements we have made in race relations since 1960.  

He should be ashamed of himself.


by CoyoteCreek on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:15:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I support HRC and I am against BO. (2.00 / 1)

There are ample opportunities for you to educate yourself on Obama's stances on the issues; he makes them crystal-clear on his website.  There are numerous places where you can educate yourself on his voting record as a state and federal legislator.

But honestly - it shouldn't matter where Barack Obama stands, because you know full well where John McCain stands.  He stands against everything Hillary Clinton believes in.

Let's assume for a second for the sake of argument that you're right about Barack Obama's being a centrist or not standing clearly on the issues (despite the fact that there is no question about where he stands).

Which is worse - an "inexperienced" president who listens to Democrats with foreign-policy experience, or an "experienced" president who does nothing but continue the disastrous policies that have run our country into the crapper over the past eight years?

Which is worse - an "inexperienced" president who nominates Roe-supporting moderates to the Supreme Court, or an "experienced" president who nominates more Scalito clones who overturn Roe, thus denying women the right to reproductive choice?

Which is worse - an "inexperienced" president who "lurks right as much as he lurks left," or an "experienced" president who consistently, openly, and boldly slams the wheel as hard right as he possibly can?

Make no mistake - if things continue as they are incredibly likely to continue, Barack Obama and John McCain are the only two people who can be president on January 20, 2009.  Your choice is between them.  Will you support the person whose views you don't know, or the person whose views you know to be completely opposed to the Democratic values of Hillary Clinton?


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:26:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I laugh - you always tell people to go (1.66 / 3)

to his website and read things that advisers have written.

NO.  What does BO stand for?  He can't articulate it - and if all I can learn is on his website, shame on him for thinking that he can run this country.  Is he going to have to tell people "he'll get back to them" instead of having the facts and policies ready to talk about.

And his advisers...I notice you don't mention Jim Cooper - because he is so fucking scary on health care, you can't possibly defend him.

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know, my sainted mother used to tell me.


by CoyoteCreek on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:37:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I laugh - you always tell people to go (none / 0)

Since when is it okay to be willfully ignorant?  Research is supposed to be part of the democratic process.  Unless you're watching all the candidates all the time without any media influence, that's the only way you're going to come to an informed decision.  Instead, you refuse to see what his policies are for no reason.  The truth is that you've already made up your mind (in fact I've seen you in other diaries talking about voting for and campaigning for McCain) and are simply looking for any excuse to justify your emotional reaction to what you see as BHO overcoming HRC's inevitable "entitlement" to the nomination.  If you're serious about voting for McCain, then I suggest you heed the advice of my many fellow commenters and start blogging on Red State.


by brathor on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:31:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I will never campaign for John McCain. (none / 0)

I will campaign against Barack Obama.

Big difference.


by CoyoteCreek on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:44:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe looking at how the campaigns were run (2.00 / 1)

will help.  HRC didn't run a very good campaign, Obama ran a spectacular one.  Shows great judgment in my opinion and a peek into how well an Obama administration will run things.


by ksh on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:27:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I have looked at BO's campaign... (none / 0)

and am horrified at his games and rhetoric.  Truly.  He has done NOTHING to unify this country - in fact, he is, IMHO, responsible for the divisiveness that currently exits.

The candidates are more important to me.  and with Obama, I see nothing.  With HRS I see intelligence, knowledge, experience, strength, wonkishness, the ability to work a piece of legislation through.

All things that BO does not have.


by CoyoteCreek on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:34:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe after this is over, you'll give Obama (none / 0)

a second look and revise some of your opinions.


by ksh on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:43:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, I won't - and I'm not the only one. (none / 0)


by CoyoteCreek on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:44:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you are absolutely right (none / 0)

I would be very surprised.


by semiquaver on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:10:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Trust me. (none / 0)

I will NEVER vote for BO.  And neither will my husband or my daughter or 25% of my friends.

Learn to live with it!


by CoyoteCreek on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:45:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I suppose that much is clear. (none / 0)

and I'm happy to live with your personal decision since a single vote rarely matters.  However, anecdotal talk about what your friends will do shouldn't convince anyone of anything.  I'll take you at your word that you are serious, but you can't even be sure that your own friends will follow through, especially during this very bitter time.  Anger makes people say crazy things sometimes, but in reality it's a rare person who votes against her own self interest because of a grudge.


by semiquaver on Fri May 16, 2008 at 03:52:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

not voting for POTUS (2.00 / 1)

but will vote for all down-ticket dems as long as they remain neutral on POTUS.


by 4justice on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:26:37 AM EST

Re: not voting for POTUS (2.00 / 1)

How many of those are there going to be?


by labor nrrd on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:27:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

zero (2.00 / 1)


"Because after an eight-year hiatus it is vital to have a president who leads the country instead of lassoing, roping and branding it." Shaun Appleby
by chrisblask on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:28:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: zero (1.00 / 1)

Seriously... are you that obtuse or just that obtuse AND arrogant?


Take it to the Convention! Hillary '08"
by JHL on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:36:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How is it obtuse and arrogant? (2.00 / 3)

Democrats want a Democrat to win the highest office in the land.  That's surprisingly... logical.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:42:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Has it ever happened before? (none / 0)

If so, when?  Maybe it has a few times, but why do you think that one of the exceedingly few downticket Democrat candidates to remain neutral on a general presidental election will be in your area?  


by semiquaver on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:15:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gosh, both I guess... (none / 0)

And answer this one - yes or no - have you stopped beating your spouse?

Seriously - since you ask such a cerebral question - I doubt that you will find a lot of politicians of any registered party in Nov who are not supporting the presidential candidate of that party.

Too obtuse?

OK.  

Democrats likely to support Democrats = 100%

Republicans likely to support Republicans = 100%

-yours in obtuse arrogance

-chris


"Because after an eight-year hiatus it is vital to have a president who leads the country instead of lassoing, roping and branding it." Shaun Appleby
by chrisblask on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:16:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Plural? (none / 0)

Are you voting across the land or something?


by Fairy Tale on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:28:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not voting for POTUS (2.00 / 2)

So you wont vote for any dems? No democrat in the general will remain neutral between a democrat and a republican in a presidential election.

Everyone from dog catch to senator will endorse the democrat nominee.


by Cheebs on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:32:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not voting for POTUS (none / 0)

Rather than do that, may I suggest either voting for a 3rd party candidate, or writing in a candidate such as Hillary for example.

It would help prevent McCain from obtaining a majority of votes should he win the election, leaving him with a plurality, and thus he couldn't characterize his election as a mandate.

Personally, I hope Obama and Hillary agree to form a unity ticket. It's what a clear majority of Democrats want according to the polls, and will guarantee an electoral blowout for us come November.


by phoenixdreamz on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:47:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Er... you're not up on recent history. (2.00 / 2)

It would help prevent McCain from obtaining a majority of votes should he win the election, leaving him with a plurality, and thus he couldn't characterize his election as a mandate.

Don't you remember that Bush considered his scrape-by wins as a mandate to do whatever the hell he wanted?  How'd that work out for us?

There will be no "unity ticket."  It is not in the cards.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:52:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There will be no "unity ticket." (2.00 / 1)

If correct, that's most unfortunate. It provides McCain with a competitive edge the Republican party dosen't deserve.


by phoenixdreamz on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:29:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I wouldn't say that (2.00 / 1)

Quite frankly, the Republicans have been preparing to run against Clinton for seven years.  They have long, long lists of slander to use against her.

If she were the nominee, it would be fine; it would play into her "fighter" image... after all, she'd been preparing to run against them, too.

On the other hand, on an Obama change/unity platform about getting beyond partisanship, all that would be a distraction to the overall message, and quite possibly would alienate the independants and Republicans that Obama appeals to.

I don't think, with all proper respect to Senator Clinton, that her presence on the ballot as VP would be worth the trouble it would end up causing (which would largely not be her fault).


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:39:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not voting for POTUS (2.00 / 1)

Neutral?  As in, not declaring support for either Obama or McCain?

Good luck finding a Democrat who does that.  (If you do in fact find one, please do let us know so that we can mount a primary challenge to him/her in 2010.)


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:04:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not voting for POTUS (none / 0)

Every Democrat will be supporting the party's nominee so I guess you will be voting straight Republican.


by hankg on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:10:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I would vote for my dog (1.00 / 1)

More friendly, more loyal, more loving and more trusting. Better than the two snakes above. However I would certainly get myself a bucket of popcorn and watch the two idiots rip each other apart.


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:30:36 AM EST

Re: I would vote for my dog (2.00 / 1)

Wow you're myopic.

.... and a bigot too based on your comment yesterday about North Carolina.

Classy.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:37:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I would vote for my dog (none / 0)

How true. That is why I work at an inner city Soup kitchen every Sunday. Thanks!


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:42:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I would vote for my dog (none / 0)

lol. As if that means that you're not a bigot.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:46:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I would vote for my dog (none / 0)

Bigots can serve soup as easily as anyone.  Bigots could even fight for Civil Rights.

I'm not saying you are a bigot (I'm really not), but your actions do not necessarily classify your beliefs.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:54:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I would vote for my dog (none / 0)

people who need the services of a soup kitchen can't be caucasian, bigot?!

Your characterization makes my point.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:00:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I would vote for my dog (none / 0)

Did I say there are no caucacians in the Soup kitchen? I guess you would never know!


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:04:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I would vote for my dog (none / 0)

I said that you were a bigot.  You replied that that's why you work in a soup kitchen.  

Anyone wanna chime it with what the implication was?


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:50:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I would vote for my dog (none / 0)

I think you are f**king bigot!


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:59:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I would vote for my dog (none / 0)

Yeah, except the difference is that I can point to your own statements.

Run along now.

Bigot.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:13:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (none / 0)

Obama


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:31:15 AM EST

A vote for Barack Obama is... (2.00 / 2)

...a vote for Hillary Clinton.

Seriously.  President Obama will not block Senator Clinton's legislation, he won't nominate justices that she'll have to vote down, he won't use procedural games to cancel her vacations, he won't send our troops into harm's way for no good reason, he won't call emergency sessions to browbeat her into voting how he wants her to vote...

McCain will do all these things because he believes, like Bush, in the imperial presidency and the right of the president to do whatever he wants.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:32:12 AM EST

Re: A vote for Barack Obama is... (2.00 / 1)

I am sure what you say is true. But if the vote holds up he loses GE. Even if he loses 10% of Democrats he would lose. I am sure the same is true for Hillary.


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:39:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What's your point? (2.00 / 1)

Barack's entire campaign was run as if he were 10% down.  That's how he kept winning; he never just assumed that a state would fall for or against him (and don't give me any guff about West Virginia.  He had a lock on the nomination by that point).

I don't care what the polls say.  I don't care what negative-nelly Clinton or Obama supporters say.  I don't care what the media says.  None of that will prevent me from working towards an Obama presidency.  It was drastically unlikely that we'd even get to this point, don't tell me we can't go all the way.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:46:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A vote for Barack Obama is... (2.00 / 3)

This is a good point: not voting for Barack Obama makes it harder for Hillary Clinton to be an effective Senator.


by davisb on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:44:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (none / 0)

Looks liek there are some idiots who want to cut off their noses to spite their faces.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:45:42 AM EST

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (none / 0)

hey their faces really deserve the spite though!


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:47:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (2.00 / 2)

Keep in mind that the Hillary people on mydd.com are NOT representative of the Hillary supporters at large. The vast majority of her supporters will vote for Obama. Right now, Obama is beating McCain by five percent or more even with the Hillary holdouts. Once we come together as a party, and the Hillary people come home to the nominee, Obama's lead will grow.    


"No matter what happens, I will work for the nominee of the Democratic Party because we must win in November." -Hillary Clinton
by fugazi on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:58:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Never for Obama. (none / 0)

We're going with HRC.


by CoyoteCreek on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:50:36 AM EST

Re: Never for Obama. (none / 0)

You should keep supporting her after she loses the nomination. She'll need your money to pay herself back the $11+ million.

Too bad you don't care about the country.


by Reeves on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:54:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

HA Ha Ha...it's because I DO care (none / 0)

for this country that I will never foist this empty suit on the nation.

Never.


by CoyoteCreek on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:56:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: HA Ha Ha...it's because I DO care (none / 0)

Instead you'd try to foist Bush on steroids? Your logic falls apart somewhere before you touch your keyboard. Care to clean it up?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:02:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Empty suit or bloody conscience (1.00 / 2)

... wish I knew where you live. ;-)


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:04:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is that a threat against me? (none / 0)

It certainly sounds like one.

And I live in Michigan and Arizona.


by CoyoteCreek on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:10:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Empty suit or bloody conscience (none / 0)

sounds like a threat to me as well.  Care to explain?


by semiquaver on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:16:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not sure I can, or should (none / 0)

I'm not sure where I was going with that... honestly. nor am I sure that where I hypothesize I was going would stand much chance of making sense to someone else.

Ignore!


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:46:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Never for Obama. (none / 0)

I swear, I really hope you're still taking this tack in 2010 in the midterms.  Maybe by then you'll realize that she really didn't run a very effective campaign until April.

The greatest political failure is failing to win when the stakes are high.  She didn't plan this thing out and she couldn't execute it for beans.

Why the heck would she show any more forsight in the general?


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:56:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Premature (2.00 / 1)

Very likely Obama, almost assuredly not McCain, but the tickets aren't set yet. The only way Obama loses me is with a poor VP pick. (No Bloomie, no Hagel )


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:54:03 AM EST

whoohooo! (2.00 / 1)

we have a sane one!

)good point too(


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:05:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: whoohooo! (none / 0)

Even then, I would probably vote for Obama, since the top of the ticket matters  more and the bottom of a McCain ticket is likely to be worse than Bloomie or Hagel. I actually like both of those guys, but they are probably worse than any Demo short of Zell Miller that we could put on the ticket.


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:10:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm hearing Huckabee or Pawlenty (2.00 / 1)

Both would be disasters as president.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:33:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (2.00 / 2)

During the civil rights movement Dr. King told those of his followers who were african americans that they needed to suffer the indignities and incitement peacefully, without violence.  To do otherwise would reenforce the stereotypes surrounding black people.  He knew as well as any of his followers that it was a monumental favor that he was asking.  Horrible crimes had been and continued to be perpetrated against black people.  Murder, rape, lynchings, torture, humiliation, the list goes on and on.  He also knew though that in order to win, in order to gain any justice for victims or any improvement for future generations, the perception war must be won or no progress could be made on any other front.

If Hillary's female supporters throw this election they will be doing so because they did not learn Dr. King's lesson.  To turn against a man who's agenda is damn near identical to Hillary's and put into office a man who's agenda stands exactly opposite Hillary's.  To watch an entire generation of young ladies lose liberties and watch equal pay get taken away from our female children for what may be the entirety of their careers, to vote for a man who will reinforce the glass ceiling with steel girders, is spiteful and irrational.  It is to reenforce the stereotypes about irrational, spite driven, hysterical women.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:55:21 AM EST

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (2.00 / 1)

Also, why is anyone here voting for an individual?

Seriously.

This election is about two very separate agendas. Who represents each one isn't as important. One is disastrous for America. The other contains a lot of what any Dem or left-leaning person believes in.

If you'd go disastrous just because she's not the figurehead, you are a child.


by Reeves on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:56:43 AM EST

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (none / 0)

Neither. I can't stand either of them and think either of them would be bad for the country. McCain because he's not the moderate maverick he was and has turned into a neocon. Obama I could not vote for because he's far left of where I am when it comes to foreign policy and the middle east. They both have antigay elements and folks as advisers and campaign staff. Both have spiritual mentors who are fundies in either direction. Seems we are going from one extreme to the next from neoconservatism to neoliberalism and frankly it scares me.


by Iceblinkjm on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:04:44 PM EST

What is your foreign policy ideal? (none / 0)

As far as I understand it, in fifty years we won't have an Israel, at this rate.

What would you do about it?


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:07:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Will You Vote In The Fall? (none / 0)

Who did you support in the primary?

Everything you say about Obama and